Bates White Overview: The World’s Top Economic Consulting Firm (Podcast)

Bates White is one of the world’s top economic consulting firms with tons of interesting opportunities for a range of talented folks.

Today, we’re excited to bring on Scott Weishaar – a Partner in the firm’s Life Sciences Practice – to share what makes the firm unique in the consulting landscape.

The conversation covers the below (and a whole lot more):

• What the heck is economic consulting?
• Clients the firm serves
• Culture at the firm
• What differentiates Bates White in the economic consulting firms market
• Promotions at the firm
• Bates White’s (hybrid) working model
• Cover letter and general recruiting tips for candidates

The firm is actively hiring for a number of roles (especially for PhD and lateral hire candidates) – learn more and apply.

Relevant Links

• Explore careers at Bates White
• Follow Bates White on LinkedIn
• See our in-depth write-up on Bates White
• Explore free resources to break into consulting

Partner Links

• Explore Stax careers
• Learn more about IGS careers

Transcription: Overview of Bates White Economic Consulting

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

I have the honor today to introduce an incredible firm and an amazing person to you. Scott Weishaar is with us from Bates, White and Scott chairs the Life Sciences practice at Bates White. They provide consulting expertise and expert support in complex litigation, and government investigations for pharmaceutical manufacturers and wholesalers, for pharmacies, for health care providers, and for other life science industry participants.

And if that’s not enough, Scott obtained a bachelor’s in economics from Penn State University prior to starting his career in consulting. This is one of the places close to my heart – I grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. So, we’re gonna go through Scott’s background, a little bit about the firm, and just understand some of what the opportunities are at Bates White going forward. So Scott, welcome to Strategy Simplified, we’re excited to have you.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Thank you very much for having me. I grew up just down Route 30 in Gettysburg, so we sort of share that connection.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

I have a sister that went to Gettysburg College for her undergrad. Everything is local in Pennsylvania. You always know somebody who knows somebody. Right?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

That is true.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

We’re really excited to have you on today. I’m going to ask you a couple of personal questions at the end. But is there anything about your bio that I either misspoke about or that you want to add on about your background for how you got to this field before we talk about the firm specifically?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

I think it would be helpful for your listeners to know that I essentially grew up with Bates White. So I came here directly after undergrad. I was convinced I would be here for three or four years and then go back to grad school, I was exploring a number of different options.

For a whole host of reasons that I’m sure we’ll get into more in our discussion here, I’m still here now 20, almost 22 years later. I came in as an entry level consultant, and have moved up the ranks to now be an equity member of the firm. I’ve grown and the firm has grown a lot and it’s kind of nice to have that perspective on where we’ve been, where we are, and where we’re going.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Amazing. So obviously, they’re doing something right, if they’ve encouraged you to stay this whole time. You said that you’re based in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Is there a Bates White office in Gettysburg?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

I grew up in Gettysburg. We are based solely in Washington DC. One of our founding members, partner Hal White, he had a satellite office at one point in San Diego. He was a very well known professor at the University of California, San Diego. So, we have that association to the west coast, but virtually all of our operations are here in DC.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Great. Let’s talk a little bit about Bates White. And before we dive into where the offices are, and everything else, talk about what economics consulting is and walk us through how you figured out what it was. You mentioned that you came in at the ground floor. Talk to us just a little bit about what is economic consulting, really? Who do you serve? What do you do? What kind of work is involved in your day to day?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Sure. It’s a great question. The word ‘consulting’ is a very broad one. And it’s like my aunts and uncles say, ‘what do you do?’ And I say, ‘economic consulting,’ and they say, ‘which stocks should I invest in?’ And I say, ‘No, no, no, that’s not it.’  Almost all of our work is in some adversarial process. Most of the time, that means litigation. One party sues another party or the government is suing a party, and we get involved to offer our expert economic testimony. This could be on issues like – do we think the economic issues surrounding the case are such that there was some misconduct? – let’s say an antitrust violation. In many cases, it’s assessing damage. So, assuming that whatever alleged conduct did occur, to what extent did it cause some harm to someone or some injury?

So a lot of my work, for example, is in the Life Sciences space and we’re often assessing whether in situations where perhaps a company allegedly paid a doctor a kickback. Did that alleged kickback cause a doctor to write more prescriptions, let’s say, than they otherwise would have or render more services than they otherwise would have? Those are just some examples of where we would consult in litigation. Adversarial processes are sometimes arbitrations and sometimes investigations.

Let’s say we have a client who’s being investigated by the government, maybe we have a pharmaceutical manufacturer or client, who the government is looking into for a particular issue. And we will help them assess. Does their data reflect some pattern, let’s say, that the government is concerned with?

In that context, as well as in litigation, it’s not just about necessarily getting a trial win, but advising them on – What should their litigation strategy be? What should they be thinking about in terms of a settlement approach if we don’t think it’s right for them to proceed all the way to a jury trial or bench trial. So we do have some instances where companies will hire us to do some sort of business advising. I would say around 90% of our work is in that adversarial process that I described.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Can you just walk me through who hires you? Is it the lawyer or the company? And again, we want to explain this in a clear way so we understand who people are working for by proxy through your organization. And then also, how long is a standard engagement?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

All great questions. The answers depend a little bit on our different practice areas. We have the Life Sciences practice, as we discussed, an antitrust practice, where we do litigation work. For example, a monopolization case where a company is accused of monopolizing a particular market, and we’ll assess if that’s the case. Or maybe there’s some proposed merger activity that the government is reviewing. Let me just pause there, I’ll get into the other practice areas, but I want to make sure I answer your question.

Ultimately, it is the end client. So it could be the federal government, in the case of the federal government reviewing a merger, or maybe a state regulatory agency that is investigating an alleged fraudulent activity. It could be a company, typically Fortune 500 companies who are being investigated or find themselves in litigation. In terms of who we work with on a day to day basis. That’s a little bit different. That gets to the other part of your question.

Those are generally the attorneys that either the government has working in house, or occasionally the government will hire an outside law firm to assist them. And then if we’re working on behalf of a company, they will hire attorneys as well. Sometimes it’s multiple law firms.

Typically, it’s the law firms that will come to us to assess whether we’re the right fit for their client. And then most of our working relationship on a day to day is with those outside law firms, although we do regularly meet to make sure that we’re updating the end client and advising them as well, in concert with the attorneys.

And because almost all of this is in litigation, there are lots of concerns about confidentiality, and attorney client privilege. So, we’ve got to make sure that those outside attorneys are in place to give us that privilege to have those conversations, if that makes sense. There were other aspects to your question, though.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

I think that was really helpful because sometimes I think people don’t know – when I am advising students when they’re thinking about different kinds of consulting, I often say that it’s hard to tell the difference, so ask who hires you. Because if a Chief Technology Officer hires you, you’re going to have a different kind of consulting than if a director of a department or supply chain hires you. It gives some illumination to the work that you’ll be doing and who hires you.

Now, you said earlier in the beginning that the Bates White has grown. You’ve grown up with the firm, but also the firm has grown. How have you grown?

Have you added practice areas, are the cases longer and more complex? Are you now working with different kinds of organizations? Talk to us just a little bit about growth in the economic consulting sector, because I think it’s helpful for people to understand where you are now. Are you recession proof? Where are you going? I think it’s helpful to understand a little bit of those market dynamics as well.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

For the most part, we are recession proof, even counter cyclical in some ways. At times, there can be increased efforts to litigate during downturns in the economy. In terms of growth, when I started in 2001, I was employee number 29, I think. There was one very large price fixing case. There was an alleged cartel and our job was to assess the time period over which there was collusion, and then to calculate damages that resulted from this alleged collusive agreement.

From that, came some follow on suits. And I would say, at about the same time, we were really starting to expand what is now known as our Environmental and Product Liability Practice. Internally, we call that EPL for short. At EPL at the time, we were analyzing asbestos mass torts looking at insurance coverage related issues associated with asbestos exposure.

I worked on a case once upon a time where we had to estimate how many people were exposed, potentially, to asbestos containing fibers from insulation that went on commercial boilers. I never thought I’d learn so much about commercial boilers as I did then. [laughs] It was kind of fascinating. And let me be clear that when I talk about growth, for us, that means something perhaps different than sector wide. We have what we call our organic growth model.

We encourage entrepreneurial pursuits. We want our people to dictate our growth. Our intention is not to go out and add in lots of folks laterally at higher levels. Certainly it is not to acquire other companies. It is to grow as our people grow, as our talent grows, as our expertise grows, and certainly as our recognition grows accordingly. So, take the asbestos practice that is now the Environmental and Product Liability Practice – and I am dipping my toes into those waters currently, because, not surprisingly, there are pharmaceutical products for which there is some potential product liability. And so we’ve got sort of an intersection of our practice areas.

But there are all sorts of mass torts. Chemicals like PFAS. Talcum powder is in the news as a product that may be cancer causing. Asbestos cases continue, but we’ve got pharmaceutical products, like Ranitidine, these sorts of things. And so there’s a diversification that just naturally evolved.

We basically launched the Life Sciences practice, sometime in the mid 2000s, when we happened to work on a pharmaceuticals case that was very, very large, very sprawling, and basically required us to develop expertise in pharmaceuticals in a way that we could then parlay into additional work. So, there too, we started with one case and now we have a thriving practice with maybe 30 active Life Sciences cases at any one point.

Just to cover some of our other practice areas, the energy practice. We had a particular founding partner who was interested in energy issues. And that has taken off. Same thing with finance. We did not have a finance practice initially, but we essentially had the opportunity to do lots of work looking into mortgage backed securities cases, following the 08′ recession. That work has now expanded into lots of different types of financially related cases.

But again, it’s looking for those opportunities, developing relationships with our clients, and then growing internally, our own experts, and essentially seeing where that takes us with the sort of caution to make sure that we’re not growing for growth’s sake, and that we’re not growing too fast in a way that we think could dilute our culture, which we invest quite heavily in.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Let’s pivot and talk about that a little bit. You’ve been at the firm for 20 years. You’re a poster child in some ways for this internal growth, but it is counter industry. The industry says hire a couple of salespeople at senior levels, bring in more work that way. But I think it’s often at the expense of culture and the preservation of culture.

I don’t know if culture is the answer, but what has kept you at Bates White for 20 plus years? Why do you think you’re going to continue to stay? Why have they given you so much headroom? What is the culture like? Start to address a couple of those and I may poke in on a few.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Headroom is an interesting word. One of our guiding principles – and I want to emphasize that yes, we have guiding principles. It sounds like a consulting buzzword, but these are things that we live by. Whenever there’s a key decision to be made about a policy or whether to take a new case. Whether it’s a compensation question with respect to our staff, we are always coming back to our guiding principles to inform those decisions. What was the firm founded on, and let’s make sure we’re not losing the principles on which the firm was founded.

One of those is “empower our people.” And so when you talk about headroom, we’re going to give you some leash, and we want you to run with it. We know that that may be tough, right? But we know that people are going to learn and grow from that.

And so, I assumed, when I was very young in my career, that I would quickly tap out on my potential and would need to go get that PhD or MBA. And to be clear, we’ve got lots of people who have done that, who come, stay for three, four, or five years, and then go do that. And they’re very successful in their other pursuits. And our consultants go off to top flight law schools and PhD programs and MBAs.

But for me, it was ‘wow, I kept getting a new challenge.’ And I was empowered to figure my way through. Now, of course, we have mentors here, who are very involved in that. We have a very formal sponsorship program – every employee has a sponsor. And so there were certainly resources around me. But there were no constraints placed on me and I could find my own path.

So, in addition to being a Partner in the Life Sciences Practice, and working on those billable projects, I’m also playing a role on our firm leadership’s Executive Committee, which has helped me, now with of all those years of perspective, chart our future course and make sure that we’re doing that in a way that is up to date and innovative but still is guided by those principles that I’ve talked about.

Every engagement survey we do, and we do them sometimes multiple times annually. It’s the people that rises to the top of the list. And, there is something special about the camaraderie and collaboration that we have here. Everyone is working together toward the same objective and when you come to work every day, and that’s the spirit, that’s awesome. Right? We really have that team-oriented spirit.

When you’re able to grow and you’re challenged, and you love the people you’re working with, and yes, oh, by the way, they pay you quite handsomely as well because your expertise is valued in the market, that’s awesome.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Can you talk about what makes Bates White good? When I’m the client thinking about hiring an economic consulting firm, why do I hire you instead of somebody else?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Yeah, that’s great. Look, I think in our industry, everyone’s smart enough. When I look at our competitors, I don’t necessarily say, ‘gee, we’re just smarter than our competitors.’ There are lots of smart people out there.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

You might think it, but you don’t say it. [laughs]

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

I mean, sometimes we think that. Sometimes we look at the opposing expert report, and we say, ‘that’s not so great.’ But when we think about what differentiates us, it’s a few things.

Certainly, we’re very responsive. This is a fast paced business. There are litigation schedules, clients want answers, courts want answers. And there are times when its timing is important. Being responsive is important. We pride ourselves in being responsive. Perhaps more important than that is we do our business in a way where we want to partner strategically with our clients. I’ve seen the work of some competitors, I’m not going to get specific, but I’ve seen situations where I see them wait for direction from a client. Let’s wait for the client to ask a question and then we’ll respond and give the client the answer.

We’re saying let’s help anticipate the client’s problems and let’s work with them collaboratively on the solution. And, our clients almost always become repeat clients because of that. They know that we’re sort of a trusted ally, and will not necessarily tell them what they want, but we’ll partner on – let’s make sure everyone understands the big picture. Let’s analyze the data, let’s do the research, let’s inform you. But then let’s talk about what that means for your client, and for where you are in the investigation or litigation. And to me, that’s a really important differentiator.

I’ll add one other thing that touches upon what I mentioned. Integrity to us is very important. You can imagine that if you’re in the business of offering expert testimony and litigation and a client hires you – and we get these questions from folks who interview with us all the time, awesome questions. They say, ‘gee, what if you come across an issue, you analyze it, and you come to some conclusion the client doesn’t like?’

There are folks out there who will be very flexible with their opinion. For us, integrity is important. And when you’re in it for the long run, clients appreciate that integrity, because they know that they’re getting trusted input from you. It’s not always what they want to hear, but it’s what they need to hear to really inform how they’re going to litigate or how they’re going to settle.

And so I think that’s another thing that we look at, in addition to that strategic partnership, and responsiveness, that really differentiates us from others in the industry.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

You mentioned before that you started as a junior employee, and now have an equity stake in the company. Can you just walk us through the lifecycle of somebody who joins the firm? Some of what our folks are used to is the McKinsey, Bain and BCG model of every two years, you have a promotion point and you are up or out.

I would just love to know, is yours similar or different and how is it similar or different? I think a lot of people would gain from having a little bit of a longer term perspective, I think it’s very clear. You have this amazing value proposition, especially if somebody wants to come for a couple of years. But what if I might want to be a lifer? What then does my future look like if I come and work for you?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

So we don’t constrain it in any way. We value diversity in the sense that a lot of people think about in terms of diversity and making sure that that we’re recruiting in a way where we are reaching all different types of people. But once those people are in the door, there’s a real diversity in terms of interest. Interest in terms of whether I want to do something very quantitative or qualitative, the type of case I’m working on, how long I want to be here. Do I want to be a testifying expert? Do I want to be a really good project supervisor? Do I want to contribute to firm leadership?

All of that is possible and people pursue different paths and so in that way we don’t constrain it. There’s no policy in terms of how quickly someone should be promoted. And that goes both ways. Some people might need more time at a particular level. Some people, it may make sense for them to forge ahead. And each person’s very different. We’re going to work with them individually, to see what makes sense.

Maybe you’ll ask what’s typical. So, you’d come in if you’re in undergrad as an entry-level Consultant. After about a year, we have a level called Consultant II. After a year or two, that would be Senior Consultant. Another year or two after that Manager. So that I think is consistent with what you were describing.

After that the paths really diverge, I think. Some people could be a manager for quite some time. But after that would be Principal, five to seven years, and then another five to seven years to Partner. People have pursued that path with and without PhDs. I’m sitting here, as you said, without a PhD and have an equity stake in the company. Many of our equity owners are PhDs. But it really just depends on the value add and the firm being willing to appreciate the diversity of that value add.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

And from a PhD, do you start at the Consultant I level? In addition, a lot of our listeners are experienced hires. One of their challenges is they don’t know where to start. Where do they apply? How do they figure out where they fit inside Bates White? Is that a conversation with you? Or is there something a little bit more prescribed?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

So, first on the PhD question. We do go annually to the American Economic Association Conference. There is a process by which newly minted PhDs are coming on to the market. There is a process for recruiting those individuals. There is a separate track. They come in and start as the title is called Economist, and then Senior Economist, and finally Managing Economist.

The timeline is a little bit different. As you might imagine, when you’re going through five years of an econ PhD program with heavy math, not a ton of social interaction, very little teamwork, – they present a very different skill set than someone coming directly in from undergrad so we invest very differently in them. And again, each individual is unique, but generally speaking, we have a set of onboarding programs – we call it Jumpstart – where new Economists will come in and join that onboarding program.

There’s a real emphasis on soft skills – communication skills, teamwork skills, understanding what the litigation environment is about, which is very different than academia, and how to adapt from academia to the business and litigation environments. And so that’s the PhD path.  We are increasingly hiring what we refer to as mid-career hires. So sometimes that means folks moving laterally within the economic consulting sector, but there are also lots of other people out there.

We have a woman in our practice area, who’s been awesome, that came in from the White House Council of Economic Advisors. She went there directly after undergrad and was looking for something not in the government, something a little more rigorous, a little more fast paced, if I can say that.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

[laughs] That was politely said.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Without getting into any particular administration, she was interested in a change and we were fortunate to have come across her. I am not an HR, I’m a client services person, but I know our HR department is hard at work advertising the opportunities for folks to come in at the mid-career level.

Those folks can check out our website. Many of our bios are on the website, and you can certainly contact HR through the website, but I also occasionally will get folks who will identify me or others through LinkedIn, or see a bio that is of a particular interest to someone, and folks reach out and say, ‘Hey, I see you do energy work, I’m interested in that, or antitrust work or finance work or pharmaceuticals work. Can we connect and chat?’ And so we’re all about having those conversations.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Well, you took the final segment of questions and headed there anyhow. But we’ve talked a lot about how people can approach you, but how can they stand out? What are you looking for what? What are a couple of ideal factors that you would see on a resume or in someone’s background that would help them really be a top candidate for you?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

In turn terms of the application, certainly we want people who are very capable analytically. For the most part, that means capable quantitatively. And so for some, that means lots of computer programming experience. But it could also mean a heavy emphasis on math or engineering, or even if it’s an English major, or economics – perhaps that goes without saying – or a psychology major, seeing a cover letter and related experience that shows analytical thinking and the capability to do that is really important, even if it’s not quantitative.

The other thing, to me, that really sets candidates apart, is kind of simple. But I think many candidates don’t do this. And that is to actually spend time on our website. Read about some of the case work that we’re doing, and do your best to understand what it is that we do. I tell candidates all the time, the interview process is just as much about them learning about us, as it is about us learning about them. So, that is in your cover letter, what it is that you think that you’re interested in. What it is that you think we do and why are you the right fit for that. That’s really important in that cover letter.

And then when you’re in the door, you want to be a clear communicator. But we also want people to exhibit the same things that we value. And so that is be collaborative and talk about your collaborative pursuits. What are some clear examples of how you have behaved collaboratively? Don’t just tell me that you’re the president and leader of this, that, and the other thing and you get A’s in all your classes. You can kind of do that on your own.

Tell me when you’ve really struggled to work in a team and how that felt, and how you overcame that. Because that’s what we do and so we want to see that people have done what it is that we’re going to do.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

That’s super helpful. I want to wrap this up because we have a couple of rapid fire personal questions. What advice would you give to folks, outside of everything that we’ve shared, as they’re thinking about looking into economic consulting and Bates White in particular.

Where should they go? Is it the website? Is it somewhere else? What should they be looking for? And then, are there any other pieces of advice that you would recommend for them?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Start with Management Consulted. See what they have to say about Bates White and our competitors. That’s an obvious answer. Certainly, our website, but again, reach out to us. Reach out to HR, reach out to our professionals, particularly if you are several years into your professional career and you’re interested in making a switch. Let’s have that conversation. We’re happy to help in that way and be mentors and also assess whether this is the right fit. We have something to benefit from that in having those conversations.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

I love that. And I know that this could change. But right now, are people in the office, remote, or traveling? Can you just talk finally about the lifestyle piece?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Sure. It’s a really, really important question these days. I was just actually reading a Bureau of Labor Statistics report that put out some percentages…

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

That’s so DC of you! [laughs]

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Yes, it certainly is. But I’ll give you what our answer is and I can set aside the statistics. We are in a hybrid environment. We ideally want our people to be here three days a week. Right now, that means Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Those are what we call our coordinated days. We don’t want people to come into the office whenever, we want people to be in together so that the types of activities and meetings that we have in person can be conducted on those days and that we benefit from that.

People are also in Wednesday and Friday, but many people take the opportunity to work from home, which we’ve learned that we can do through the pandemic. And then beyond that, there’s lots of flexibility. We get that people have things that come up various times and need some flexibility. We endeavor to meet our people where they are. Again, we’re all part of the team. So, that’s sort of the typical schedule, but that’s not to say it’s set in stone for everyone.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Okay, awesome. Love that. That’s super helpful. Last thing, rapid fire questions. First one: one person from history that you’d love to get dinner with and why?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

I don’t know if this is a cop out – I’m not really into fame, it’s not a pursuit. I think it would be to go back and have dinner with my grandfather when he was like 26. He parachuted into the Battle of the Bulge in World War II. I’ve heard stories here and there, but only when he was much older, and I’d love to go back and be able to sit down with him and hear about that. Just the bravery and patriotism is something that is hard to really comprehend. So anyway, I’d love to have that conversation.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Love that. Second one: what piece of advice would you give to yourself in your 20s? It’s kind of funny that you said that about your grandfather, but imagine going back and having dinner with yourself in your 20s – what would you tell yourself?

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Don’t be afraid to ask dumb questions. I used to be. I realized that a lot of those questions weren’t very dumb or there were others around me who had the same question. I was always afraid of that. But you don’t learn unless you ask those questions.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Yeah, I love that. Last question: your favorite memory or moment from your time at Bates White.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Wow, there are so many favorite moments, I would say. Lots of long days spent in war rooms with the team where you get that expert report filed and there’s a lot of celebrating after that. The camaraderie of that generally is awesome.

I would point to one in particular, which is that we had a an expert testifying in Alabama in state court. It was a pharmaceutical trial relating to certain published prices. And at the end of the day, our argument was about ensuring that the people of the state could get access to the care that they needed and the drugs they needed at pharmacies. The jury, as juries often do, ruled against the pharmaceutical manufacturer.

But the Alabama State Supreme Court overturned that ruling, and in the process, cited our expert and our work. And so it was awesome to see not only a win for our opinion, but ultimately, I think it was a win for public policy in terms of the way that some of the economics played out there, in terms of how prescription drugs are made available in the state.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Love that. Wow. You’re the unsung heroes behind the curtain, right? This is an amazing job.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

I used to want to do a policy job and I thought I would go to DC and do policy but I never really appreciated how much policy is actually made from this adversarial process of litigation. Frankly, sometimes more policy is made that way, then up on the hill behind me.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

It’s true – I love that. Thank you again. What an enlightening conversation. I’m sure that people are going to find it incredibly interesting. And make sure your inboxes are ready because I know a lot of folks will probably reach out with interest. Thanks again.

Bates White: Scott Weishaar

Look forward to hearing from them. Thank you very much for having me on.

MC: Jenny Rae Le Roux

Okay, awesome. Thanks Scott.