What is Sports Consulting? With Deloitte Sports Practice Leader Pete Giorgio (Podcast)

In this episode, we hear from Pete Giorgio, sports practice leader for Deloitte and one of the world’s foremost thought leaders on the topic. Pete serves multiple sports clients as a Deloitte Principal and joined the podcast to share:

• His journey to Deloitte and spearheading the sports practice
• Business trends in sports – and how they apply to other sectors
• What sports consulting is and who it’s for
• How to become a sports consultant
• His Final Four pick

It’s a fun, fast-paced look into a rapidly growing segment inside management consulting. If you’re looking to make your career in the sports consulting industry, learn more about what it takes to land a role at Deloitte.

Relevant Links

• Black Belt case prep program
• Learn more about Deloitte’s sports practice
• Share your feedback for the podcast

Partner Links

• Learn more about IGS careers
• Explore Stax careers

Transcription: Sports Consulting Overview

MC: Namaan Mian

Welcome to the special episode of Strategy Simplified. Namaan here. I’m so excited to be joined by Pete Giorgio, the sports practice leader for both the US and the global sports practice at Deloitte. Pete serves multiple sports clients as a principal at Deloitte Consulting. His main areas of focus are strategic growth, customer acquisition, digital transformation, innovation, organizational transformation, new business operations and implementation, and cross unit integration.

That’s a little bit of a mouthful. So if you need to go back and re-listen to that, feel free to just skip back and do that.

Pete, you’ve got a lot going on. You joined Deloitte after spending time with multiple IT strategy and development consulting firms. You served in the United States Air Force, achieving the rank of captain. Thank you for your service by the way. You earned a BA in computer service from Amherst College. And this is my favorite fun fact about you so far, where you were a four year varsity basketball player, a three year starter, and you still hold the single game rebounding record.

Pete Giorgio

When you think about sports or basketball, you know that rebounding is the one true measure of heart. So what I lacked in height, I made up for in taking up space and making room.

MC: Namaan Mian

I’ve been the same way in every sport that I played. I’ve got to make up for a lack of talent with heart, grit, determination, and just a higher pain tolerance than everybody else. So I have to ask you, what do you remember about the game? And what is that rebounding record?

Pete Giorgio

So we were playing Colby College, who at the time were the White Mules, but now they are the Mules. It was the ECAC quarterfinals in 1991 and it was a double overtime game, which many of the folks that I played with still remind me that we had extra time, but I always remind them that was back in the day when there was no shot clock. So we were running four-corner. So there were a lot fewer rebounds available than usual.

MC: Namaan Mian

The pace of play was a lot different back then.

Pete Giorgio

It was. Unfortunately, double over-time and we ended up being on the losing end of that, but it was a great game. Actually, it was one of the most exhausting games I’ve ever played.

MC: Namaan Mian

I believe it. So what are we talking here? 22 rebounds? 22. I will have to admit it has since been tied. And that’s just a regular night for Nikola Jokic.

Pete Giorgio

Although add another 15 assists and 40 points and it’s like a day at the office for him.

MC: Namaan Mian

There’s a reason he’s the back to back MVP. Don’t worry everybody. This is not turning into a sports podcast. But Pete does lead the sports practice at Deloitte. Pete, just wondering, if you could just share a little bit more about your background than I was able to share. What would you like folks to know about you before we really dive into the work that you do?

Pete Giorgio

It’s a bit of a varied background honestly. I did not follow the traditional, come to a consulting firm for a few years, get my MBA, come back, grind away. I was a pencil pocket projector wearing computer nerd. Got out of college, was in the Air Force for a while. Got out and joined a technology consulting firm that got bought by bigger one that got bought by a bigger one.

Next, I rolled into a company that some of you may have heard of called Monitor Group, which was a boutique strategy consulting firm that Deloitte bought 10 years ago and, and really came to sports honestly, pretty late. It was only about seven or eight years ago that I went to the firm and said, Hey, I noticed we don’t do much in this space. Can I really push and try to build a practice? I got lucky on a few things and have grown the practice from there.

MC: Namaan Mian

So for those of us who know, sports is big business, but others who are listening may be like sports consulting, come on. Is that even real consulting? So can you talk to us a little bit more about what the practice does and the types of problems that you help solve, and the clients that you support?

Pete Giorgio

Yeah, it is big business. But like any industry, it has its quirks, right? I’ve spent time in grocery I’ve spent time in and women’s beauty products and other things too. And they all have their quirks and sports is no different. I mean a lot of us, it has the benefit. And this or detriment of being an industry we are all very familiar with there, most of us. But we’re very familiar with it from a fan perspective, right? We buy tickets, we buy merchandise, we watch it on TV, we do fantasy, we make a bet, things like that. And in a very interesting way, while that accounts for a lot of revenue that happens in the industry, a lot of the big dollars happen behind the scenes: media rights deals, sponsorship deals, large licensing deals, things like that. And so you layer upon that quite complex systems of companies.

So if you think about the NBA, for instance, they are the league, but each of the teams is a separate franchise, that is a separate legal entity. And by the way, may have multiple other separate legal entities, maybe for the stadium, maybe for some of their other businesses, things like that, too. And so it’s pretty complex. And in all of that are the same business problems every industry has. Everything from supply chain to organizational development and learning to digital transformation, to back office implementation to all of those same thing. These are large organizations and complex organizations that have the same challenge as everybody else.

And so one day I might be working with a client, helping them think about their data strategy, and where and how should they not only store the data, but use the data. The next day I’m helping a client think about their org design. The next day after that I’m helping somebody buy a team or a club, and the day after that of helping thinking about changing the fan experience at a stadium. So, for me, that’s the exciting part. That’s why I do consulting in the first place. And why I’m in that business is that variety of opportunities, and they all exist in sports.

MC: Namaan Mian

Absolutely. Once you take that shiny veneer of Phoenix Suns or whoever off the label, we need a data strategy just like any other business. We need to enhance our customer experience, just like any other business.

Pete Giorgio

Our payroll for these athletes might be a lot higher than a normal payroll, but it’s still just payroll. And those guys have to pay taxes. All of those pieces exist.

MC: Namaan Mian

Pete, there’s a lot of upheaval right now, at least from my external perspective, in the sports and the sports media landscape. But you know, here in the US just a day or two ago, there’s a regional broadcast provider who declared bankruptcy. And so now Major League Baseball, for example, is trying to figure out how they’re going to stream local games in 20 of their 30 markets, for example.

The NBA is trying to expand internationally, the NFL is trying to expand internationally. Can you just talk to us about some of the trends that you expect to see out in the world of sports and sports media in the next five to 10 years?

Pete Giorgio

Yeah, you know, I think behind a lot of, and some of the examples that you talked about some other ones, too, is a fundamental shift in a couple of things, and maybe two or three things that are happening not just in sports, but broadly in entertainment. You know, where and how you and I ought to consume sports is vastly different than it was 20 years ago, right?

I mean, 20 years ago, this was primarily a medium that you either watched on TV or you sat in a seat, and you did it for two hours, three hours, you know, whatever the time limit is, and you consumed it altogether. And the next day, maybe read about it in the newspaper in a box score. But that was the primary way that we consumed this.

And today, all sorts of companies have retrained every single one, I don’t care if you’re a boomer or a Gen Z, they’ve retrained us to sort of expect more. So expect us to be able to see the best clips on a game on our phones. To be able to go in the metaverse and watch these things. To be able to instantly have our watch or pop up the score as things happen. All these things. And the ability for the industry, and when I say the industry, I mean not just the sports franchises organizations themselves, but their media partners, their technology partners.

There is a fundamental shift that’s actually happening across all of those that’s driving it. And I think anytime you see an industry going through these types of momentous shifts, business models change, The way you actually make money and do business will change. And sports, I honestly think is actually one of the most resilient industries that’s out there, if you just watch the way they reacted to COVID. You know, it was breathtaking how quickly they pivoted. And so I do think that we’ll see a lot that happen.

But I think there’s a number of trends that are out there, I mean, literally how media is produced, like what happens between the time that light goes into that camera, and light comes out of your device, whether it’s a TV or a headset, or a phone, there are momentous changes that are happening. Gone are the days of big trucks pulling up outside and stadiums and, and people in there, that’s all happening in the cloud, and it’s being distributed, right?

And it’s happening real time. And it’s happening in ways that allow you to not just to have a linear broadcast coming out of it, but in the moment splitting it up into clips and having alternate audio feeds, and all of those things. What you do in a stadium today is vastly different, right? You go from watching the game, to looking at a replay on your phone, to go to the fantasy lounge, to go to the bar that’s right next to the court. And I think all of these things are really sort of driving these giant changes that are challenging the status quo in a lot of instances, creating new opportunities and many more in a way that I find fascinating.

MC: Namaan Mian

The common thread I’m hearing across those trends is greater accessibility. But for the fan, to the team and the franchise, greater flexibility in how I choose to engage with the content that I want to engage with. But in my understanding, that also means that the ways that you monetize my attention are changing. Can you just speak to that a little bit?

Pete Giorgio

Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I would add to that just fundamental technology changes. Like what is what is possible today is so different than two years ago, was so different than five years ago, that’s, that’s underpinning all of that. And so, if you if you take a step back and look at the business and sports in general, it’s really about monetizing eyeballs. Right? How do I get Namaan to watch a specific event, and then how do I charge him for that ability to watch it, whether it be through a ticket, or through subscription or these other things.

But honestly, that’s not the big dollars. You know, once I have Namaan, and I have his heart, mind and eyeballs, honestly, I’m figuring out ways to monetize that, whether it be with sponsors, or other companies or other places as well. And so the ways and the opportunities to grab those hearts, minds and eyeballs are just so vastly different, right? It’s again, it’s on your phone, and it’s on these other mediums.

And what you’re seeing is organizations really start to flex and change and multiply many instances what those opportunities are, what those business models are. So that’s part of it. Another thing that I think is a really interesting trend in sports is the real estate that surrounds a lot of these stadiums, so not only do I have Namaan’s heart, mind and eyeballs, I also have him captive in a district around my stadium related to a game, and I can use that to think about where and how you know, Namaan wants to eat, or where he wants to shop, in a lot of instances where he wants to live.

And so you see a lot of the biggest trends we see, and especially on the stadium side with sports is these districts. And we think about what’s happening in Los Angeles, what Mr. Kroenke has done in Inglewood. That’s a 300 acre city that is around. And the stadium just takes up a fraction of that. The rest of it is going to be residences and retail, all the above. And that’s a new business model. Well, it’s actually not a new business model. There’s other industries, like 20 years ago, the grocery world, you build a grocery store and a development around it, and you make money off of the leasing to the dry cleaner store, the restaurant store, things like that. So, but it’s applying it in that context.

So you’re seeing sports get very creative, and evolve a lot of these new mediums. And by the way, it’s just the beginning. So I think we’re gonna see some really interesting things happen over the next five years, in terms of really sort of continuing to push that.

MC: Namaan Mian

It’s amazing what is considered old hat in one industry, when you port it over to another one can be considered creative and innovative. Yeah. So well, kudos to Stan Kroenke, and others who are importing that model. I think of Wrigleyville in Chicago. And some of what’s happened in Boston, around Fenway Park, as well as other models.

Pete Giorgio

What the Bills and Titans are planning I mean it’s happening. And by the way, it’s now happening in Europe and other places, too. And so it’s a trend that will continue.

MC: Namaan Mian

So I would argue we’re still pretty early in that evolution in the sports landscape. Are there a couple other key trends that you would say, Hey, we’re, in the early adoption phase of these, but they’re going to become ubiquitous over the next decade? I know your team just released a sports industry outlook report. And so maybe a couple of them would be included in there.

Pete Giorgio

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I do think one of the fascinating pieces of the sports industry is the fact that as important as it is to make money, to have a positive P&L on an ongoing basis. A lot of these are actually long term valuation plays, especially clubs and properties that you have. And so when you see the Phoenix Suns being sold for what they were just sold for, when you see the Commander’s on the market for a certain number, when you see the Ottawa Senators bringing in bids of a certain size, that’s a reflection of an asset that’s growing in value.

And one of the interesting things that we’ve seen, especially in the last couple years, is the financial markets waking up to that asset, to sort of think about as they look at different industries, different sectors, different investment opportunities, when you see, Steve Ballmer pay $2 billion for the Clippers, and everyone said that’s gonna be the new record that nobody’s ever gonna beat that. And then the Sun’s just doubled that, right? That type of growth is hard to find. And so we’re seeing a lot of Private Equity companies, a lot of other special investment vehicles really start to look at sports as an asset class by itself. And really sort of thinking through where and how.

And I think that obviously will bring a lot of dollars into the industry, but also a lot of sophistication too, in terms of the types of returns that these mechanisms and these organizations expect, I think will actually drive a lot of that growth that you were talking about before it too. So that’s one that I think is fascinating, and I think we’ll continue to see played out. Another one that I’m really bullish on is, I believe, fundamentally, that women’s sports right now is undervalued, that we are in the middle of or at the beginning of a steep growth in terms of the value of women’s sports.

Partly because we’re starting to see, it used to be you would hear the argument, nobody watches women’s sports, and that’s no longer true. We have data left and right, that talks about women’s sports seeing the viewership, the attention, that oftentimes surpasses men’s sports, right? And you’re starting to see a lot of organizations sort of wake up to that and realize that. And so I think it’s an undervalued asset right now. I mean, which one would you rather bet on doubling in value over the next few years. The Phoenix Suns or, you know, an NWSL team or WNBA team? Again, smaller base.

And so doubling is not the same. But if you can think about these things that percentage basis. And so I love where women’s sports is headed. And I’m very bullish on that, especially as we think about it, not just as an economic driver, but a social driver, as we think about the types of causes that we see women’s athletes get behind, whether it be health equity or social injustice or things like that. You’re seeing, you’re seeing a renaissance or you’re seeing a growth that is not just economic, but purpose led in a way that I find very excited. So excited about that.

I think we are just in the very early stages of artificial intelligence, fundamentally changing sport, both on the performance side. So think about collecting data and analytics about what’s actually happening in a basketball game, what’s actually happening in a football game and using that to do everything from injury prevention, to developing new plays, to really understanding should I be starting a small lineup for my basketball team. But we’re just at the very beginning of that, partly because historically, the way to really do AI, well, you need vast amounts of data for it to work. And we have lots of data, but we didn’t have that vast amount.

Now we’re starting to see a lot of these video volumetric plays that just produce terabytes of data per match in a way that the human can’t really dig into. You’re gonna start to see that. And also on the business side of sports, as we start to understand more and more about fan behavior and where and how we attract audiences. We’re gonna see it there as well. So I think that one I think especially it’s gonna be very interesting to see where that goes and what that leads to.

MC: Namaan Mian

I think those are all really fascinating trends, I do want to double click into one of them for a minute. And it was the growth of women’s sports and your belief that it’s an undervalued asset in relation to some of the other franchises and leagues that may be out there. Curious if you’re seeing that in certain geographies over others, or in certain sports over others.

Pete Giorgio

It’s interesting. We’re actually starting to see a lot of data that I used to think it was, I mean I live in the United States, so I predominantly see it in places like, not just the WNBA and the NWSL. But for anybody out there, you should take a look at athletes Unlimited. It’s a really interesting new model and certainly we’re seeing an NIL in college sports, things like that.

But you hear a lot about what’s happening in women’s cricket in India. And women’s football or, or soccer in Europe. Those things we’re seeing a lot of it growing across the board. Maybe not at some of the same levels and  maybe not with some of the same attention. But I think it is a global issue and it’s a global phenomenon. And so, I think we’ll continue to see that as well.

MC: Namaan Mian

Pete, I want to transition our conversation a little bit to talk more about Deloitte specifically, as opposed to just the sports landscape more broadly. And so a lot of folks who are listening to this podcast are probably going to find themselves in a similar boat as me, which is hey, I love sports. I love business. Sports consulting feels like that could be the perfect intersection of my passion, my interest, my skills, etc.

Can you just talk to us about some of the opportunities that may be available inside of your practice area at Deloitte?

Pete Giorgio

Yeah, I would say a lot of people ask me, How do I get into sports, and usually quickly followed by how do I get into Deloitte sports. And one of the first questions they often asked me is, what should I study? Or what experience do I need and things like that. And the biggest thing I tell them is one, broadly within the consulting space, we do everything for sports teams. So like I said before, there’s a breadth of things that we bring the sports team. So it’s not just athletics, it’s all the above.

So, I would say to anybody who joins a consulting firm. or joins Deloitte, there is a sports practice there somewhere, a sports project and at some point in time, they probably need your skill set. So I talk to them less around focusing just on sports and more as consulting as a passion and an industry. And I believe firmly that a broad range of experiences of industries actually creates the best consultants over the long term.

But I do get approached by many, many people say, Yeah, yeah yeah, that’s great, but I want to do sports. And I think there’s lots of opportunities to get into sports and consulting is only one of them. Obviously, we have a quite established, well respected practice here. But there are practices at many consulting firms, and a lot of times, not just not the big ones, but the smaller firms. Both specialized firms, but a lot of the big sports marketing firms have consulting arms as well. And so there’s opportunities there. But a lot of times the best way is to get that on the ground experience.

If you go work for a Triple A baseball team, you’re going to learn more about how sports works. You’re also going to be selling hot dogs in the morning, selling tickets in the afternoon, cleaning the bathrooms later on that day, and raking the field afterwards, right? So you’ve learned all aspects of it. But I tell everybody, if you’re interested in sports, and you’re interest in Deloitte and apply, we do not hire especially at the I would say for people earlier in their career, directly into the sports practice.

So like a lot of consulting firms, we have a general pool of consultants. So people apply to join that pool. Once you’re in the door, we have lots of opportunities to get involved in sports. And not only just for projects for clients, we do a lot of research, rewrite white papers, we do some pro bono work. We have a community right now that is hotly working on all of their March Madness brackets, because being the king of the sports practice at Deloitte for March Madness is a big thing as well. We have a big community, as well. And so there’s lots of opportunities to get involved.

MC: Namaan Mian

That’s fine. Pete, I have to ask you, who’s in your Final Four.

Pete Giorgio

You know what, I do my bracket every year for the bottom. I’ll start with who I think is gonna win. I kind of do it and see what happens and, and I was surprised this year – I had Purdue. But I gotta go with the big guys.

MC: Namaan Mian

That makes sense. I’ve got UCLA so we’ll have to see in a couple of weeks.

Pete Giorgio

I’m more interested in the women’s Final Four. I think Indiana’s going to be tough this year. UConn with Az back. It’ll be interesting to sort of see how they do. I mean, Stanford’s gonna be tough, but I don’t see anybody beating South Carolina. I think they’re getting in the final and then whoever plays them will be an amazing team and will have had amazing season, but I think Purdue is going out on top.

MC: Namaan Mian

it’s just a little bit of bad luck that you’re at your peak at the same time that an all time great team is at their peak. It’s just sometimes goes like that.

Pete Giorgio

Yeah. So they’ve got some really good kids, freshman and sophomore, too. So this may not be their peak.

MC: Namaan Mian

Might be the next UConn. We’ll see.

Pete Giorgio

We’ll see. We’ll see. If Don has anything to do with that, I think it probably will. So UConn, I mean, 15 Final Fours in a row has got to be one of the most amazing statistics in sports.

MC: Namaan Mian

It may never be matched as great as South Carolina might end up being one day. But once the calendar flips to March it seems like it’s UConn’s time.

Pete Giorgio

Depends on how AZ’s knee is feeling.

MC: Namaan Mian

I know that you mentioned, Pete, you can’t break in directly into the sports practice at Deloitte, there’s a generalist pool of consultants that you draw from. So just speaking about consulting more broadly for a minute, what are a couple of the top skills, qualities that Deloitte looks for in its consultants more broadly?

Pete Giorgio

Yeah. I would say the biggest things, and I’m involved in a lot of recruiting. So the biggest things that I look for, are number one the ability to break down and solve problems. A lot of people ask me, Do I need an econ degree? Do I need a math degree? I was like, actually, I care less about  that. If you can break down and solve problems in your philosophy class or your French class, that’s all I need. I can teach you PowerPoint, I can teach you Excel. I can’t teach you how to really sort of fundamentally be able to look at a problem from all sides, break it into its constituent parts and solve it. So that’s usually number one.

Number two, and I take this absolutely from my sports career, which is we don’t do anything in consulting by ourselves. Everything is as a team. And so how are you going to fit within the team? Are you able to work well with others? Are you able to recognize and step up and lead when it’s needed? Are you able to follow a recognize and follow when it’s needed? Where and how do you show up, and will you show up in those different ways, is a big piece for me too.

And so for me, it’s really those kind of two pieces together. And actually maybe a third one too is just your willingness to learn layered on top of those two. You are not going to be an expert in any industry, or any particular type of work, especially coming out of undergrad. You’ve got some skills, but being able to sort of sit there, learn both implicitly and explicitly, as you grow on that job, that’s the biggest thing. Because that’s what we do in consulting. I still don’t know what I want to be when I grow up. I’ve got five or six more jobs to do this year, never mind the rest of my career.

And for me, that’s the exciting part. I’m looking for people to get excited about that. That is the unique value prop of consulting, and a certain type of person that’s wired to love that is going to thrive in that environment. And it’s also interesting, because I talk to a lot of folks, I’m gonna start sounding like the old dude. So I apologize. But when I talk to a lot of undergrads, they kind of think about their career differently than I did. And they want to go someplace for a couple of years, and then to get a different job for a couple of years, and move around.

And one of the things I remind them is Deloitte, especially now that we are so vast in terms of all the different things we do, you can have five hundred different careers, just at Deloitte. And so I think it’s a great opportunity, both for the person who’s known since they were a kid that they wanted to work in sports, as well as the person who doesn’t really know what they want to do. But they want to do it with smart people and people they like and learn over time. And I think we can offer both in a way that is quite unique.

MC: Namaan Mian

Is that what’s really kept you at Deloitte for over a decade, that ability to have 500 jobs in a year? Or is there other considerations that have come into play for you as well?

Pete Giorgio

I think it’s definitely that. I also feel like the other thing, I think Deloitte’s superpower is its willingness and ability to actually be, for such a big organization, it’s actually pretty flexible. And that flexibility comes with the trust that it places in people like me. The firm, when I go to them and say, I know we don’t do anything in sports consulting today, but I’d like to build a practice. The firm says, Great, we love that. How can we help you.

That when we want to do certain things or go into new businesses, there’s an entrepreneurial spirit that I think a lot of people are surprised at because they think it’s a big firm, there’s got to be a lot of bureaucracy, there’s got to be a lot of process and forms and things like that. And don’t get me wrong, we have plenty of forms. But we are surprisingly entrepreneurial for a company that that is that large. And for me, that’s invigorating. For me that is both a testament to the leadership we have, but also, a testament to what will continue to be moving forward.

MC: Namaan Mian

That’s not typically what I expect to hear when I asked people about an organization the size of Deloitte.

Pete Giorgio

No, it was not what I expected when I joined.

MC: Namaan Mian

So to your point, I think that’s a big testament to the leadership at the firm.

Pete Giorgio

Yeah.

MC: Namaan Mian

Pete, we typically like to end our episodes with a couple of personal questions, get to know you a little bit better. So I’m going to just throw some questions at you rapid fire, and just feel free to just give me some short snappy answers. So first one, one item from your sports bucket list.

Pete Giorgio

I really want to go to the Women’s World Cup this summer in New Zealand

MC: Namaan Mian

Sounds incredible. Your favorite sports experience so far.

Pete Giorgio

Watching my daughter’s team win the NESCAC championship in basketball two years ago, and the joy on their faces. And maybe the Patriots most recent Super Bowl. But women’s NESCAC basketball beats Super Bowl any day.

MC: Namaan Mian

100%. Your top weekend hobby when you’re not on the road.

Pete Giorgio

Cooking.

MC: Namaan Mian

What’s your best dish?

Pete Giorgio

Ooh, I do a lot of good Italian. I’m a baker too though. Pies. I’m a big fan of my pies.

MC: Namaan Mian

Okay, we’re all heading to Pete’s house for Thanksgiving.

Pete Giorgio

I make a mean pizza too. So just another form of pie.

MC: Namaan Mian

And then something you’re reading, listening to, watching, really a piece of media that you’re consuming these days that’s inspiring you or that you’re finding interesting.

Pete Giorgio

That’s a hard one. And I mean, I feel like I’m reading and watching things all the time. And I can’t give you the honest answer, which is, I’m really into the Last of Us right now.

MC: Namaan Mian

I’ll take that.

Pete Giorgio

You’ll take that. Oh, you know what? I’m really enjoying Full Swing, the new documentary that’s out about what was happening in golf last year.

MC: Namaan Mian

Pete Giorgio is a principal with Deloitte Consulting, he leads Deloitte’s global and US sports practices, serving multiple sports clients across the globe. Pete, thanks so much for joining us today on Strategy Simplified.

Pete Giorgio

No worries. Thank you very much for having me. This was fun.